Resilience That Works: Building Strength Without Burning Out

May is Mental Health Awareness Month, and we’re starting with a conversation most people get wrong.

Resilience is one of the most praised traits in the workplace.
 But no one talks about the cost.

In this episode, we break down the difference between:

•  Healthy resilience vs. silent tolerance 
•  High performance vs. hidden burnout 
•  Strength vs. suppression 

We also get honest about what women, in particular, have been conditioned to accept in the workplace and why “pushing through” is not always the win it’s framed to be.

From navigating toxic expectations to understanding the real impact on your mental and physical health, this conversation challenges the idea that staying strong should come at your own expense.

If you’ve ever been praised for “handling it all” while quietly struggling, this episode is for you.

Key takeaways:

•  How to recognize when resilience becomes self-damage 
•  Why high performers are often the most overlooked when they’re struggling 
•  The role of boundaries, self-awareness, and recovery in sustainable success 
•  What leaders are missing when they rely too heavily on “resilient” employees 

Because resilience may get you through it…
 but it’s not how you’re meant to live long-term.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the No Filter, No Apologies podcast with Rebecca Sachs and Katie Shapiro.

SPEAKER_01 0:06

It is Cinco de Mayo. And so today we're not only kicking off mental health awareness month, but it's also Cinco de Mayo. And we're going to talk about resilience. It is a big misconception within the US that Cinco de Mayo is Mexico's Independence Day when actually it's a holiday that celebrates the date of the Mexican Army victory over France at the Battle of Puebla during the Franco-Mexican War. So, yes, it was a victory and it was an example of resilience, but it's not their official independence day. And that's, I think, where a lot of Americans or people in the US tend to get that mixed up. Yes, it's a huge drinking holiday for all of us Americans, but it doesn't mean the same thing in the US as they seem to think it does. So and then like I said, it is mental health awareness month. And so we're really excited for all the things to come throughout the month for our podcast, but also to continue to talk about mental health as it is a very uh important topic today. We have we see in the workplace that wellness is all-encompassing. It's not just your physical wellness, it's also mental health, financial. There's eight factors and sectors under wellness altogether within the workforce now. So it is a good thing to be aware of and celebrate.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

I think my own experience, when I also think about what we see in the workforce, especially from women, that resilience is probably one of the most praised traits in the workplace. Like nobody ever talks about what you had to go through or what you had to shut down in order to be resilient. And that is not examined and it should be.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

Absolutely. It's very interesting because I I think about having conversations with women who were in the workforce in the 80s. And when sexual harassment wasn't necessarily brought to light, I don't think it was till like the Clarence Thomas trial that people really started to be aware of what was happening within work empowered dynamics. And a lot of women were resilient against sexual harassment, but it was just like, oh, I paid my dues, right? Like they could the men could make sly comments and be disrespectful, but it was like, oh, I just had to pay my dues to get to where I am. And right now that's not the case. It is completely unacceptable. And you shouldn't have to pay those dues to get to where you are, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:50

Your hard work and accomplishments should pave the path and not being resilient against being treated like a piece of dirt or whatever, a sexual object in workplace, you know, work creating that business and contributing to business outcomes. It should never be abuse or we're not of any kind. You know, it should never be that. And I think to your point, there was societal conditioning that took place that this was something everybody went through. And so you just had to deal. And we see that with people who experience racism as well, right? It's oh, I just na this is every day of my life. And it's like, it shouldn't be, and we shouldn't accept it anymore. And to your point, we're not, right? People are people are forcing those societal changes. But I will tell you, I I watched a video recently and it was a woman was sharing the story of her mother, who was an executive but years ago. And she said her mother never shared with any of her employers that she was married or that she had children. And she would leave within a year of having her child. She never had family pictures up. She never mentioned that she had to get home. She didn't miss a day because of a sick kid. And she got to the highest levels of organizations. And she said, I highly recommend that women adopt this strategy today. And I was like, wow, I was empathetic to her mother's story. I was inspired by her mother's ability to be resilient and to succeed. Yeah. In spite of what the societal constructs were around her. And then I was really disappointed when I saw that her daughter was saying, I highly encourage you to do this because, on one hand, yes, I get it. You want people to achieve that success. And this may be one way to navigate it. But two, that just enables the system further. Yeah. And it's extremely difficult to do what her mother did.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

Well, how do you be your authentic self if you have to not talk about all the things that you're proud of and make you who you are? Right. Like that's that's not resilience. That's hiding behind something and it's creating another persona of who you are, as opposed to just being you. And if you can't be you, which is one of the biggest things that people need in the workforce today, is the individuality of people, then what are we doing? I understand why she did what she did when she did it. And you and I had this conversation. I think it was our first episode. We talked and we started talking about. I knew someone who didn't talk about being married or having children to her hiring managers because she didn't want to be seen in a different light. But in this day and age, everybody talks about everything. And so being able to be your authentic self is such an important piece of who you are and what you bring to the table in the business world. Why would you want to hide those things? I get it. If you don't want to discuss what's happening with your children, with your coworkers, and that's fine. But to say that you're not married or that you don't have children and portray someone that you're not, I think you're not being your authentic self. And that's not healthy either.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

So when women cannot show up authentically, it actually manifests in their physical and mental health. So women have more autoimmune diseases, and that comes from suppressed emotions, suppressed feelings, etc. I highly encourage our audience to do a little research on that because once you realize that your inability to be authentic in the workplace will affect your mental health and your physical health, which makes you potentially around for a shorter amount of time for the people that you love and care about, you start to approach your work life a little bit differently and say, I need to show up and be myself.

SPEAKER_01 6:55

Absolutely. And you know, they talk about all the different as aging women, they talk about all the different hormonal impacts that you go through as you age in life. And one of the biggest impacts is cortisol. And if you have constant stressors because you have to hide who you are, that doesn't do anybody any help, right? You're you're gonna, you are gonna shorten your life, you're gonna take yourself away from your family more and more. And even if you are uh working more, you're still adding more stress to your life, right? You're not able to spend time with the people that you need to be around with to be happy and healthy, to have good mental health. It's just in this day and age, it's really challenging to understand why someone wouldn't want to just be who they are.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

I think it's difficult because you have these conflicting expectations, right? I want to be mentally healthy and what I'm experiencing takes that away. But I'm also complimented for being resilient. And so I'm strong enough to overcome this, I'm strong enough to bear the stress, I'm strong enough to push through this. And then I think what happens is the lines get blurred between what is resilience and what is tolerance of something that should change. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

Yeah. And you do get praise, right? For having resilience or for getting to the finish line for whatever project or mission you have within your organization. And while that feels good, when you go home, because you've been taken away from your family for so long or you've been so stressed, does your family celebrate the same way that you do? And that can't be healthy because they don't really understand. You know, from personal experience, I can say like my partner doesn't understand necessarily what I put into what I work. Always says he's proud of me, but if it takes me away from him more than it should, he just gets irritated. That's not good for us or my mental health either.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

You know, I must read a lot about being raised by a Marine and a teacher. You know, teachers can't miss work and Marines don't miss work. Right. So I was praised a lot growing up for being resilient. You just push through, you just survive, you just move on. And I do agree with that. You can't stand still, you can't become stagnant in things. Right. But there comes a point where resilience can result in just delayed impact. And I think that's what happened to me that I was resilient for for over 20 years of my life. And life had a way of catching up with me all at once. I mean, went through the pandemic, left a career for the first time ever without move, not moving just right into another job. And then my mom died. And it was like life was just like, hey, all that shit you've survived, we're gonna hit you with a bunch of it right now. And I was forced to pause and to assess my health, both physical and mental, and to heal. And so I think as we talk about mental health awareness month and resilience in particular, you've really got to watch where am I being resilient in a healthy way, in a way that makes sense, and where am I tolerating things that are going to catch up with me later?

SPEAKER_01 10:31

Yeah. And I think about resilience in the workplace is being able to withstand big changes, leadership changes, mergers, acquisitions, things of that nature. It's not being able to work 16 hours a day, get up and do it all over again, and continue to give blood, sweat, and tears and not get anything in return. That's not resilience. That's really torture to yourself more than anything.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Not, you know, that's it's too high performing women. Like one of the things I've seen too is that high performers get overlooked when they're struggling because they deliver anyway. High performers are so resilient, they deliver anyway, and then the organization overlooks where they are, and then you're shocked when they either quit or have a heart attack. Or, I mean, we've seen that being on the HR side, people really having medical impacts, and it's just, or their mental health becomes so bad that all of a sudden they're like, I'm done. They quit. And you didn't know because they were so resilient, they were delivering the entire time, and they were struggling, you just didn't know it.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

Yeah. I know we always had open communication within our teams. And we did have someone who it seemed that was struggling with mental health and ended up leaving very abruptly and we weren't aware. But I also think the communication piece is really important if you are struggling within your work environment. If you're not comfortable having the conversation with your boss, talk to someone in HR, talk to somebody else within the organization because it is important that you let them know hey, this is what I'm working on. This is what I can deliver, this is what I can't deliver. Set your boundaries. We talk about it all the time. Boundaries are so critical, especially if you are continuously inundated with work and getting more. You have to be able to find a point to speak up for yourself and advocate for yourself because you're the only one that knows what's going on inside your brain and what you can handle and what you can't.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

I have to respectfully disagree with the other one because establishing boundaries 100%. You need to do that. You know where your resilience is hitting a cap and and what boundaries you need to have in your workplace. And you should have those anyway. We talk about that a lot. In terms of sharing within the workplace what's going on with you, I think if you're lucky, you work for a leader or within a team that creates enough trust for you to be able to do that, and enough psychological safety for you to be able to have a conversation where you say, Hey, I'm struggling and I just need to talk through it. You know, you don't have to get into your medical history or anything like that, but you can have an open conversation. But I don't think right now, and I know our we just talked about the job market in our last episode, there's so much broken trust between companies. There's a ton of broken trust between HR and employees. Employees feel like HR is there to protect the company. So if you go to share your issues or concerns, there's a level of fear that happens with that, that the company is going to see you as incapable or as a liability and exit you. So I would add to what you said, if you are in a place where you have that trust and that safety to have the conversation and have it. If you're not, then maybe look into the health benefits that are offered to you through your organization if you're on an employer-paid health program and get mental health counseling that way and go outside of your employer, but you might be able to use some of the employer-provided services to access that and take advantage of those benefits that are offered to you or that you're paying into.

SPEAKER_01 14:16

Yeah, absolutely. Most organizations have them. And it's usually one of the first phone numbers on any insurance documents. So that's it's there. Yeah. But I well, just from a work level perspective, not necessarily mental health perspective, is what I was referencing.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

But from what you mean, it just okay, I wanted to call attention to it because I think it's scary for people, especially now. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:41

And then it's true on the opposite side too, right? Because I can tell you in a previous organization, I asked for more work. Was never given it, but I asked for more work because I am a high performance. I like to be busy and I like to produce things. And so was never given the work, created my own work. So I think it goes on both sides.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

I remember early in my career when I transitioned into recruiting, I was with a staffing firm that had they had a hub that supported all of their clients and on-site. So you had a variety of who you supported. And then they had these on-site teams where you were the staffing manager specifically for that site. That's all you cared about, that's all you worked on. And I took the test, and the manager who hired me said, uh, you're gonna be in our hub because you need to be busy. You need variety. And I was like, I have never felt so seen because I excel when I am very busy. The more free time or unmarked time I have on my calendar, the worse I do because I overthink and I overperfect and I do all of that. So I think you bring up a great other side, especially for high performers who are like in order for me to feel mentally healthy at work, I have to have a large workload and I'm capable of delivering it and I know what my boundaries are. So hit me and give it to me. But I think one of the hardships for that, and we're talking about a lot of fine lines and balance for women, is that I think women are often rewarded for being considered high output, but low maintenance. They're emotionally steady, they're resilient, and what happens is it looks like they're resilient and that they're great, but it often means that they're carrying a bigger workload than they should be carrying. And that's where burnout happens, and that's where someone quits and you don't see it coming.

SPEAKER_01 16:31

Yeah. I'll never forget when I first started recruiting. My manager at the time was like, You have 56 requisitions. Only one other person in the organization has that many, and we just cut 10. We need to take them down. I was like, Don't you dare! I was like, and it wasn't even to for the financial capabilities, right? But it was to stay busy. I had a couple different time zones. I had my days planned properly. I had some newer people assisting me, but I was like, don't touch my requisitions. I need those requisitions. And so, you know, it's to that staying busy. I have to stay busy, or else I don't feel I don't feel whole.

SPEAKER_00 17:11

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

And I, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:14

And you're not really dreaming than me. I'm I'm very similar to you in that way, but I've seen you too. And I'm like, that's too much, Rebecca. Like, I just want to bang my head on a wall. This is too much going on. But then I've also seen people on the other side who are so thorough, but they're steady. So, like you're using the example of requisitions where you would have 56, and I would have someone who had 22, but she would get through those 22. I never had to worry. She got through them and she would take on another 22, but she was very thorough and she moved at a slower pace, but one that had the same results as the high performers of high volume. So I think knowing you mentioned boundaries, and I just want to reiterate that to everybody that knowing what your limits are and your boundaries are and how you can be a high performer with a different methodology is really important.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

Yeah, everybody operates differently. Being able to cater to and understand your team dynamics, how they operate. You know, as a leader, you need to know your team. And if you don't know how your team performs, you're you're gonna fail. And everybody around you is gonna fail. And so being able to understand your team, how they operate, and then cater to those people on your team is gonna give you the best output possible. Not everybody's gonna operate the same way, but you know, you will have some people that do better with 22 recs, some people with 50, some with 10. And then they perform really well and you can continue to add to their plate. And you mentioned women tend to take on more than they should and they're carrying all the weight. Well, you know, we talked about this in another episode too, the invisible labor that they have to deal with when they get home. And so just being able to know your team, if you know your team, you can usually see when someone's struggling and be able to be like, okay, what's going on? Let's talk. And you can dive into those conversations with your team.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

I think also what your team can produce and how they produce it. You have to understand what the motivations are for each individual team and they're different for every person. And there's a lot of overlap, but some people are really money motivated, some people are quality of work and recognition motivated. And you have to recognize that because that will contribute to their resilience in the workplace, that will contribute to their growth, and that'll contribute to the retention within your team if you can meet those expectations of your team and allow them to perform.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

Absolutely. Give them the opportunity to show up authentically.

SPEAKER_00 19:47

Yeah, I don't think a lot of companies do that. And I we talked about this a little bit in our diversity episode that I don't think that leaders have enough training that when you move from an individual contributor into a leadership role, your job is no longer to produce the output. Your job is to take care of, empower, educate, lead the people who are producing the output. So there's that saying, you know, hire great people and then get out of their way. But I think it's more than that. It's hire great people and then get obstacles out of their way. Right. That's your job. And make sure that they have a clear lane to perform in. And that when you see them backing off, slowing down, a little more hesitant, you recognize it where you can jump in and say, hey, clearly there's an obstacle here. Maybe it's one you can remove. Maybe you've created the trust and psychological safety where they can say, I'm worried. I have an elderly parent in the hospital. I have a high-risk pregnancy at home. My, you know, my car was just totaled yesterday, and I don't know how I'm gonna pay for it, you know. And just I think it's your job as a leader to see those things. If you want your team to be resilient in the times that count and in the ways that are healthy, you've got to recognize that coming.

SPEAKER_01 21:10

Absolutely. And and speaking about resilience, right? We talked about boundaries, is one of the things that will help you with being resilient. Having self-awareness, I think that is so important. And I know personally in my 20s, I lacked it significantly. And as I've gone through my career and I've had life lessons, I am definitely more self-aware. My partner will tend to disagree, but I'm more self-aware than I've ever been. And so I know how I operate in the workplace. I know how I'm gonna react to things, I know how to manage my reactions to things. And then I've also been able to grow and allow for recovery time in the workplace. So being able to know your boundaries, um, self awareness, recovery time, and then like I said, Making sure that you ask for help. Whether it's just, hey, can I get another set of eyes on this? Whatever the case may be, I think even if it's not your direct leader, but making sure that you have someone that you can talk to within the workplace is important, right? Because it's really hard to go through things alone and nobody should have to do that.

SPEAKER_00 22:20

It's something that I really don't think a lot of us pay enough attention to, and that's recovery time, scheduling recovery time. And I think when when we use words like recovery, people are like, oh, you're softy, recovery, you're fine, be resilient. But here's the thing part of resiliency is recovery. And if you know, for example, you're a person like you and I who we need a lot on our schedules and we need to be busy, and you might have really big projects with big deadlines. Schedule yourself a week. Once that thing goes live, or you know, when when you know the point is that it's going to come down a little bit, either schedule some PTO or purposely don't schedule big meetings or don't take on another project right away. Give yourself some time to come down from that so that when you go into the next thing, you've had enough time to recuperate. I mean, it's the most basic understanding of we have to sleep every night. Our bodies have to recharge, heal, and all of that. You need to do the same at work where you go, I've been high output and now I have to recover a little bit. And then I go high output again, I shouldn't recover for just a day or two, maybe a week, depending on the problem. It doesn't have to be a long time. You're not taking a three-year sabbatical or anything, but just right, right, be intentional.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

Yeah. And I will say, even last year after being laid off, I was constantly online looking at job opportunities, trying to be resilient. And my partner was like, just go to the pool and read a book. Like, you've done this long enough, take some time for you, enjoy the fact that you don't have to be anywhere and just relax. And I was like, I don't know how to do that. I don't know how to relax. How do you relax? And so I've learned to relax. It's not so easy for me. I still don't know how to relax, but I try, you know? And so I think everything's everything is the relaxing and the recovery tend to be learned behaviors for me, but I've gotten to a place where I know that I need them and when I need them.

SPEAKER_00 24:24

Yeah. I also think we talked a lot about high performers, but McCall out, I think, for leaders as well is that if you have high performers who are always the ones who are handling everything, they're the one that you drop everything on them because you're like, I know that they can handle it, I know that they can pull it through. And you think, wow, I have such a resilient team. I have resilient high performers. That's a line for you to watch. We talked about the employee recognizing it, but I think as a leader, you have to recognize when it's not resilient and it becomes a dependency problem. And you're overdepending on certain people to perform in your department and they're gonna burn out or they're gonna have a crash and they're gonna lose it.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

Absolutely. I mean, we've seen it. And the burnout's the biggest thing because there are times where people burn out and they can't recover from that. There's no coming back. And one of the things we talked about previously was after the recession in 2007, 2008, 50% of the construction workforce did not come back into the workforce. And so to me, that's okay, they burned out. They didn't want to deal with it. And yes, I understand that it was a volatile time. They weren't sure what was going to happen with the future. But I'm curious to know now, those people, if they went into IT, how are they doing today? Are they seeing the same impacts that they saw then? And so it's just you have to be able to, I think the boundaries is the biggest thing to be able to avoid burning out and then being able to take that relaxation and rest recovery time because yeah, you want to be able to recover from the burnout. You don't want to be stuck in a place that you can't come back from.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

And I also think self-awareness comes into play. I was just reflecting because we were talking when I worked in the restaurant industry and we had to come up with hiring standards. We knew what our busiest days were Valentine's Day and Mother's Day. And we knew how insane the restaurants were going to be on those two days. And part of the interview process for managers all the way down to dishwashers, et cetera, we would say, tell me about your worst day on the job. What happened? And you know, people love to talk about themselves and they'd be like, oh my God, we had this day where it was Valentine's Day and our inventory didn't come in, and we have three chefs not show up and we had this and that. And you ask them, like, wow, what did you do about it? How did you survive? And you listen to that story, and you're not listening for the coolness of the story. You're trying to identify can this person hang in our environment? Because I know what happens on Valentine's Day here, and I know what happens on Mother's Day here. And if if your worst day was a guest complaining and demanding a refund on their check, and that's the worst day you've picked in all your years of restaurant, we're gonna have a problem. You might not be able to take it here. And I think that you owe it to yourself when you're applying for jobs and working with companies to look at yourself and your experience and what you've done, and then see if that company is really for you in a constructive way. And I think that managers have to do a good job of asking those types of questions to see does this person's experience and resilience level and you know, maybe optimistic approach or not, how does that fit into our organization?

SPEAKER_01 27:40

Yeah. And it goes along with the change management piece too, where there within organizations, if there's no consistency on how things are done, and it's a little willy-nilly, being able to have a candidate or a person that can adapt to those different situations, have that resilience and still be able to be okay because there were a lot of times that there were a lot of people that weren't okay. And you know, they didn't have the resilience or the capabilities to navigate those changes and do it with a smile, or be like, okay, it's just part of the job. Let's move on.

SPEAKER_00 28:15

I was just talking about and I happened to talk to a restaurant manager, and he was trying to explain things, and I shared that I had experience in the restaurant industry, and he was like, Okay, so you get it. And he just unleashed, he started sharing all of these stories that restaurant managers tend to experience. And I was laughing because I was thinking back to, okay, I have a couple random fonts in here, so we'll put them in where they go. But I always tell people you need to serve in a customer-facing job no matter where you are, because it will teach you how to behave when you're out in public, but it'll also thicken your skin and give you some of that resilience that you need. Because sometimes people are animals and they don't know how to behave. And you learn how to let that roll right off your back with a smile. You learn how to shut it down real quickly. Right. And so the other second thought that I had was there was a time earlier in my career where I was working at a children's museum and it was very fast-paced, and we had a lot of we were doing manual credit card swipes. You remember that time? Like, oh, I thought that was we grew from 300,000 visitors annually to 1.3 million visitors annually in less than nine months because we changed our exhibit strategy at the time. So, you know, there's a lot of pressure that goes into that. And then I would walk down the street and meet my sister for lunch. And you know what my sister did for a living at the time? She was a parole officer. What a completely different level of resilience or just a different bucket of resilience. And I realized very quickly, this is not a job I could ever do. I could never do this job. And hers was, I could never do what you do. That's annoying. You know, and so I think that personal responsibility of what level of resilience do I have and where and what are my boundaries? And then, like you said, as leaders, making sure you could look at my experience and the things I've been through and the things I've built and the change management I've led and go, wow, she can handle anything. But if you put me as a parole officer, I could not. I couldn't. Yeah. I'm I could never work for an emergency services. I'd be in full panic all the time. I just couldn't do it.

SPEAKER_01 30:32

I don't, I don't know, right. I don't know how you don't get anxiety with your sister, also was a 911 operator at one point, too, right? And so that for me, like I held a paintball gun once and freaked me out. So, like guns anyway, freak me out. That's just me personally. But then you have dealing with people who have broken the law or you're getting a 911 call about someone cutting their finger off. Yeah, I don't know. I'd hang up on them. I don't know how I I would not be able to deal with that. I can't even watch it on like TV, please.

SPEAKER_00 31:06

I think about how you have to be to be in emergency services at all, you have to be so calm. And you want to talk about resilience. I watched an interview with uh he retired from the military. I think he was in, he was like a Navy SEAL or something. He was in pretty big part of the military, then became a cop. And on his first day, he was talking about how he had to take a call for a youth suicide. And that was very hard. And then he had to leave that house and go to a lady who had a cat in her tree. And he was talking about how you have to, you have to move from call to call, right? And it was like, that's so different than I have a kid in sports, and I'm like, you gotta, if you had a bad play, you gotta let that go because you have to move right on to the next play. And I don't want to create a false equivalency, both require resilience, right? One is to let go, hey, I screw it up, I could cost my team the game. One is I'm dealing with life and death situations, and how do I navigate that? And how do you recognize, especially for our emergency responders, those difficult calls that hit them?

SPEAKER_01 32:20

I have a friend who's a firefighter, and on his first day on the job, he walks in. There was a guy who was like belligerent, drunk. I don't know if it was a domestic call or not, whatever, but he went in and the guy was kind of slouched over and he went to check on him, and the guy pulled a gun on him because the guy had a gun like stuck in the couch and nobody checked him. Which is normal protocol. So, like, thank God nothing happened. They were able to get it away from him. But I can't even and then yeah, I just any of that. Another friend social services, his first day on the job, he went to a house because the mother super glued the kid's eyes shut because the kid wouldn't go to sleep.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

You think about my strength of the nurse, right? And and when I will talk about my work day and she talks about hers, it just reminds me that you know, there's that saying that everyone is fighting a battle you know nothing about, and to just be kind. And when we're talking about mental health and resilience today, I even think about that. Just when you walk by someone in a grocery store, you don't know if they are providing daycare, if they were a firefighter, if they're a nurse, if you know they're an entrepreneur. You have no idea how resilient the person next to you is, what they're carrying and how they're carrying it in that moment. Right. And it's just when you step back and you look through the lens of other people and what they experience, you approach people, I think, in a very different way.

unknown 34:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

You have a little more patience. And I think as leaders, we have an obligation to do that for our teams, regardless of what area of business you're in or area of life. You've got to really step back and say resilience looks different for everyone, that everybody carries it differently, and everybody's carrying a different weight at a different time. Sometimes it's heavier, sometimes it's lighter. How do you approach that?

SPEAKER_01 34:26

Okay. So as we close out today's episode on resilience, just a few takeaways, when you think about resilience, instead of am I pushing through or avoiding something, what am I pushing through right now that I would not choose if I slowed down long enough to think about? You want to build the recovery in like it's part of your job because it is to take care of yourself. And for the leaders, pay attention to the people on your team who say that they're never overwhelmed. And those are the ones that are usually your highest risk. And so thinking about resilience overall, you know, it's not just about winning the battle or winning in the moment, it's how you sustain yourself throughout.

SPEAKER_00 35:13

I was just gonna share if I could add to what you said because it was so great. And looking back at my personal story, resilience gets you through what you have to survive, but it's not how you're meant to live forever. And if you find yourself living in a resilient way, it might be time to pause and just look at your life and say, is this healthy for me? And do I need to take a different approach?

SPEAKER_01 35:42

Yeah. Evaluate the situation you're in. I mean, Katie always says, audit, right? Audit where you are and look at the things that are impacting you and how you can change them. 100%. And with that, have a great Tinko to Mayo. Follow us on all your socials, NFNA Podcast. Until next time.