A Memorial Day Reminder to Live with Intentionality

As Memorial Day comes to a close, Katy and Rebecca take a thoughtful and deeply personal look at what this holiday truly represents and how moments like this can shift the way we live our everyday lives.

This conversation goes beyond the long weekend and the unofficial start of summer to honor the men and women who lost their lives while serving in the United States Armed Forces, while also recognizing the profound impact carried by Gold Star families, veterans, and military families across generations.

Together, they discuss:

•  The true meaning of Memorial Day 
•  The importance of honoring military sacrifice with perspective and gratitude 
•  Women’s service and sacrifice throughout American history 
•  The difference between surviving life and living intentionally 
•  Why modern life keeps so many people disconnected, overstimulated, and rushing 
•  The importance of presence, boundaries, relationships, and intentional living 

Through personal stories, reflections on family military service, and honest conversation about modern life, this episode becomes a reminder that honoring sacrifice is not only about remembrance. It is also about how we choose to live, lead, connect, and show up for the people around us.

This episode is reflective, grounding, and a powerful reminder to pause long enough to appreciate the life you’ve been given.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the No Filter, No Apologies podcast with Rebecca Sachs and Katie Shapiro. Memorial Day is a day of remembrance for the men and women who lost their lives while serving in the United States Armed Forces, including the Army, Marine Corps, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, and Space Force. It's also a day that carries profound weight for Gold Star families, military families, and loved ones who continue living with the absence of someone they lost in service to our country. And while many people associate military service primarily with men, women have served and sacrificed throughout every generation of American history. From nurses and support personnel in earlier wars to combat roles and leadership positions across every branch of the military today, women have continued to answer the call to serve, and many have given their lives in that service. Yesterday was not simply a long weekend or the unofficial start of summer. For many Americans, yesterday was deeply personal. And as we reflected on Memorial Day this year, especially at the close of Mental Health Awareness Month, Rebecca and I kept coming back to the same question. Are we actually living with the kind of perspective and intentionality that moments like this are meant to remind us of? Because those moments like this should make us pause. They should remind us that life is fragile, time is limited, and freedom has never existed without a cost. And maybe one of the most meaningful ways that we honor sacrifice is not only through remembrance, but through the way we choose to live with those freedoms. How do we treat people? How do we lead? How we present who we are with our families, how much perspective we carry, and whether we are truly living intentionally instead of simply rushing through life disconnected from what matters most. So today's conversation is not about comparing struggles or centering ourselves in an experience we have not lived, neither Rebecca nor I have served. It's about reflection, perspective, humanity, and asking ourselves what it means to live in a way that genuinely honors sacrifice. So with that, Rebecca, I think Memorial Day is one of the few holidays that should naturally make us stop and reflect, but I've also seen where it becomes the kickoff of summer and a long weekend and the moment doesn't last. So I'm curious about your perspective of Memorial Day and how you received this holiday.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

You know, it's funny because my both of my family, it's both sides of the family, I should say. Both my grandfathers served, my mom's older brothers all served. But even in growing up, never really knew the true definition of Memorial Day. Right. And not until I was older and more aware of what was going on did I understand what it meant. Because it, like I as a child, it was the kickoff to summer, right? You kicked off the summer of Memorial Day, ended the summer of Labor Day. And I think that's also a very northeast thing because that's when your seasons start to change and kids start to get out of school and all that stuff too. But as I've gotten older, there's more gratitude and understanding that it's a day to honor the people who have served, and especially those who have sacrificed their lives for our freedoms. You know, as Americans, I think we aren't intentional on how we use our time and how we reflect because we are always rushing through life. And again, as I've gotten older and with certain life events that have happened over the last year, I think I've become more intentional on how I want to spend my time on a daily basis and how I want to be with my family intentionally and those things. Because now, again, as you age, you start to realize that things aren't forever. And so you stop taking for granted everything that's around you constantly because the people around you aren't going to be around you forever. So I think there's a lot more intention, I'm a lot more intentional on how I use my time and what I do now than I ever was.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

When you're younger.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

For me, it's a little bit different. Memorial Day has always been a reflection point, but we did so much with Vietnam veterans and with the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall. And a lot of that took place more in March than May. The memorialization of it and going to the wall and recognizing the loss. And then Memorial Day we would observe, definitely, but it didn't have the same weight. But since both of my parents are buried in a national cemetery, uh, we've gone up a number of times to the Memorial Day ceremonies there. Since my dad passed, it's been over 10 years. And Memorial Day has taken on a different meaning, I think, for us to also go up there and see, you know, where my dad's headstone is. He lived a long life. He survived Vietnam. He came home.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

And then just a few headstones down is somebody who did not survive and they did die in combat. And they were very young. And so, right in front of you, when you go to the cemetery, you can see survivors of combat and then those who've made the ultimate sacrifice in war. And I think when you see it like that in such a very real way, and you and you go to those types of ceremonies, it definitely makes you more intentional about what you do and how you live, and also how you honor that sacrifice and pay your respects on Memorial Day more so than just celebrating the holiday, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know my dad used to say we fought so that we could enjoy moments and enjoy life, and you should, you should enjoy life. You know, you should enjoy the freedoms that are offered to you. And it's funny, something you said about, especially as Americans rushing through life. I think right now what I hear is everybody is struggling, right? We're we're struggling financially. Our economy is not in the greatest place. There are wars going on that you either agree with or you don't agree with, but anyway, you slice that cake. We've got military personnel who signed that check up to and including their life on active duty. And it's, I think it's difficult for people to step out of the challenges that they're living and recognize that as difficult as it may be for us, there are also greater difficulties. We have a lot of freedoms that other people don't have, and there are people right now protecting those freedoms for us that deserve to be honored and respected for being willing to make that sacrifice.

unknown 7:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

And if I could say one more thing, and I say this having been raised by a Vietnam veteran, I think it's hard for people to separate military personnel from government.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

You know? Yeah. And Vietnam veterans, they were not welcomed home. They were spit on when they came home. And there was an active draft in place. Many of these men and women, they didn't ask to go, you know, and they're serving their country and doing what their country asked them to do. And our country did not treat them well upon return. And I've never forgotten that. I've never lost sight of how Vietnam veterans were treated. I've heard those stories of them changing out of uniform in the airport so they wouldn't get attacked and things like that. And I I hope as we look back on Memorial Day and we consider the families of those who made that ultimate sacrifice, that we can remember to separate what those people do and have done from what our government does and has done, and we can honor them appropriately.

SPEAKER_01 8:13

Yeah, and I think now in today's environment, we've been back on wood lucky enough that we haven't had any drafts, right? So I Vietnam was the last time that they drafted people, right? Yeah. And so it's been that 60 years? Now we're mathing. I think it's been almost 60 years, right? And so with that, that's a freedom that we we gained as a as a country, right? Not having to have people drafted. And I think that's something that people can be grateful for and think about on Memorial Day. And then to your point, too, separating government and military. Yes, the military is led by the government, but it doesn't mean that they necessarily believe what the government's doing or what they're going to do. They have a job and they're going to do their job. And to your point, I do think that people get that convoluted and don't really know how to separate that.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

Yeah, not just to separate you can honor line loss for people who were patriotic enough to volunteer and sign that check up to and including their life. There's something so selfless about that. And I don't think I know Memorial Day is about those who've made the ultimate sacrifice. Yeah. But I also think that when people come back from combat, that war comes with them in many ways. Oh, yeah. And it's unfair to not honor them. And I know that's personal opinion, but I I do hope that people can separate the two. No, I agree with you.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

And I also feel that especially for our veterans that that didn't pass in in uh in the field and at war, right? That did come home, that they should get all of the benefits and everything that they need to be able to make that transition. And it's been touch and go for the last couple of years on what kind of benefits and support that they are offered, right? The VA has a lot of options, but for a hot minute, they weren't operating, right? Because if the government shuts down, they shut down. And and I think being able to ensure that our veterans have access to everything is really important as well. And that's something that isn't talked about in us either.

SPEAKER_00 10:40

Well, speaking of that, and it's sort of looking from just a memorial day perspective, I think about the families that are left behind and how do we as a country take care of them too? Because I can't imagine being a parent, a spouse, a child of someone who has made that ultimate sacrifice and they're gone now. And what do we as Americans do to honor those families also? Because that's a tremendous loss to carry with you. And I've seen the American flag draped over my dad's casket and folded and given to my mom, and it's actually it's in my living room, I have it. It's just such an emotional moment. And I I just hope that we can be very intentional about taking care of the families who remain and honor them on Memorial Day as well.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

Yeah. And this is my ignorance, so but do you know, does the VA have support groups or systems in place for people who have lost?

SPEAKER_00 11:49

I don't know. Actually, I know that the VA does support spouses sometimes and things like that, but I don't want to incorrectly speak on it. I'm not sure what benefits they offer. But even beyond the VA, right? Which I don't feel like our government has ever taken care of veterans or families at an appropriate level. Yeah. But I think just about us as citizens, how do we take care of those families? Do we honor them on days like Memorial Day? Do we understand the sacrifice and the impact? And if you know somebody who's lost somebody in combat and made that ultimate sacrifice and didn't come home, do you take care of them as a neighbor, as a friend? I know that we kept talking about are people living intentionally or we just moving through life and reacting to whatever is around us. That's just one small example. I think about when you take a step out of your current situation, and I don't want to minimize anybody's hardship, but even when you take a step out of it and you go, my neighbor's son or daughter didn't come home. I'm gonna go check on them, regardless. Regardless of what your opinions are, I'm gonna go check on them because what a major loss. And they they signed up to give their life. And so are we intentional about these things? Do we think about them or are we so busy rushing and being overstimulated and living on autopilot that we're not actually present?

SPEAKER_01 13:17

I definitely think it's the second, unfortunately, right? I I do think, like even today, I'm driving to the gym this morning and I was like, wait, how did I get here this quick? Because I'm just in my brain thinking on autopilot driving, right? Like not taking into consideration where I turned, where I drived, how did I get here so quick, whatever the case may be. And I think that's especially in our US American society. It is go, go, go. And yes, there are other countries that have crazy working hours and are very go, go, go, but I do think we have an opportunity now because um some of the chaos that's going on in the world to slow down and take some time and think about things differently. And how do we want to be here? How do we want to be present? How do we want to be intentional about things? I also think that, you know, I I don't really talk to my neighbors. I have two neighbors that I say hi to on a regular basis. Okay, three, three when I say hi to my services. But other than that, it's a very transient neighborhood lately. And so I wouldn't even know if someone had a child that went to war, that passed away to be able to check on them. So I feel like that's an opportunity for people too, right? That yeah, I wouldn't even know in my neighborhood if that was the case, to be able to go and check on someone.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

During the Gulf War, everybody would tie yellow ribbons. I didn't live in a neighborhood.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

I lived in the middle of the woods. I didn't live in a neighborhood. I grew up in like in the middle of the woods. And so um, I remember the Gulf War, and I remember they we had stuff all over our school about it. And like I remember every fifth grade walking into school and seeing posters and all kinds of news clips, like they would show the news all the time.

SPEAKER_00 15:09

But yeah, that was the extent. It was something you know, you always had a yellow ribbon on your door when I was growing up in our neighborhood to to bring soldiers home to end the war. And I think it connected people. And then I remember after 9-11, my husband served right after 9-11, and everybody was so supportive, and we all know how that turned out, but it doesn't change the fact that those young men and women signed up to fight for our country and our freedoms and protect us and how do we take care of them? And so I'm gonna put you on the spot, but when was the last time you really slowed down and reflected and maybe said, Am I living intentionally?

SPEAKER_01 15:51

Probably in August was the last time. So, like, right when I got laid off. Yeah. Because you don't like, I mean, honestly, I don't think I've ever truly slowed down. And I think I've spoken about this before too, right? My partner was yelling at me, telling me, like, take some time, don't rush into anything, make sure if you're seeking a new opportunity, you're doing it in the right headspace, not out of fear or necessity. And so that's when I really started to become more intentional about what I was doing on a daily basis and what my goals were and how I want to get there. And yeah, because before I was, I was, I was an autopilot.

SPEAKER_00 16:36

Lesson for me, if I could share with our listeners too, is don't wait until life forces you. Wait until life forces you to reflect. Do it now. Right. Because I'm with you, I was going, going, going for so long through so much, and then life sort of knocked me down. And I had to reflect on what does really matter, and am I living to honor those I've lost in my life, but this beautiful life I've been given and the freedoms that I have. And now I try to be much more intentional about that. I try to start my day with three points of gratitude, right? Um, and to recognize that even when it's hard, I am blessed to have a roof over my head or food on my table and healthy kids and a tight-knit family. And we have our struggles and there are hardships that each of us are facing, but I'm so lucky. And when I think about Memorial Day, I go, well, what can I do with this life that I still have? How do I honor that sacrifice? And I think being present, living with gratitude, but also taking care of ourselves physically and mentally, choosing that gratitude more often, it's very difficult, but we can do it and we should do it and we should be really intentional about it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

And you and I have discussed this many a times, but if you're not healthy and taking care of yourself, you're no good to anybody else, right? And so making sure that you do the things that you need to do so you don't get sick or you you can perform at your best for everybody that you love and take care of as well.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

Yes, 100%. It's very important. I was watching an interview or something, I don't recall, so forgive me for that. But obviously, everybody is feeling financial strain right now. Everything is very expensive and all. And I there was two women and they were discussing paying bills. And one was like, and I, you know, I had to go on, I had to pay this bill, and then I had to pay that bill and then bill. And then the other woman said, How lucky you are to have been able to pay that bill. And the other one was like, lucky. And so this conversation ensued about the bill is stressful, but you were still able to pay it. Right. And don't lose sight of that. And there was someone, I think, in the comments of this video who said, I I went through this change myself of going, being grateful for paying a bill is crazy. And then she said, but then I've progressed to I am grateful that I was able to pay that bill. And she said, when I did that, my relationship with my life started to change.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I understand the gratitude for being able to pay the bill because you still have your utilities or whatever, whatever the bill is for, right? Your lights are still on. So I understand that to an extent. But being grateful for spending money on a bill as opposed to being able to spend money on something for yourself that you want, that's a struggle for me, right? Let me go broke and spend it on something that I want as opposed to paying the bill.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

Sorry, I don't have a ship, but then when you think about it and you're like, yeah, I penciled it on me. And if paying a bill is one of the things I have to do, but all the other things are great, you know, and you start to reframe your brain, it's very difficult to do. Yeah. And I think you said something earlier that prompted a thought. You were like, people don't pause and reflect or take time anymore. And sometimes life forces us to. I think right now people need permission to pause without guilt. Yeah. So many of us are working multiple jobs, right? And taking care of kids or taking care of elderly parents. We're going through life, and to think about pausing, the amount of guilt that comes with that because you don't have a moment. I think we need to give people permission to pause. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:46

I you know as well as I do. It's very hard to pause. It's very hard. And I I do try as much as I can on the weekends to really be present, whether it's even watching a silly TV show or whatever the case may be, to be able to be with my partner when he's around, as opposed to um just running around doing crazy things and not enjoying each other's company, right? I try to do all the errands during the week so that on the weekends we don't have to do those things, all the adult things that you have to do. But it is important to be able to have those intentional times, whether I know couples do date nights and things of that nature too. And so making sure that you pause and enjoy the people around you. I was listening to this woman speak uh a couple weeks ago at an event, and she was talking about being present in the moment. And when she goes out, her husband and her and her two daughters will go out to dinner and they have the one up rule, which is only one phone at the table. Cause like sometimes they'll go out and they'll do like bar trivia or something. So they have a phone that they can look things up. But you know, as soon as one person picks up their phone, Everybody picks up their phone, so they call it the one-up roll. And so I said, Oh, that's such a good idea. I need to instill that into my life because when Christian and I go out, sometimes he'll be on his phone. And I'm like, all right, he's on his phone. I'm gonna get my phone. And then we're like two morons sitting at a table, both looking at our phones, not interacting with each other, right? So I said, no more. And when you're home, we talk and no phones. Like if you want to sit and play on your video games at night when we watch TV, I don't care about that. But when we're having a conversation, no phone, be in the moment, be present. Because Himself is just like, uh-huh, uh-huh. I'm like, what did I say? And then he'll report, he'll repeat parts, but not all of it. And so that's been our new thing. And every night we have conversations when he comes home. It's foreign to us, but it's actually it's been really good.

SPEAKER_00 22:51

I think it was such a great piece of advice for our listeners who feel like where would I have time to sit and pause or be present? And you can find time. I know for us, we try really hard to sit and eat dinner as a family. And when we do, to your point, we're not on our phones. We're together and we're gonna sit and talk about our day, talk about whatever, and we're not gonna be on our phones. We're just gonna be present for this 45 minutes to an hour that we're sitting eating dinner. And you can you can do those types of things. And I think it's important to remind people that you don't have to earn every moment of peace by exhausting yourself first. And I know uh you probably know this. I can't sit still, and and when you work from home, you're like, oh, I can wash the sheets, I can clean the couch, I can't anything. You start looking for things to do, and it's like, no, you know what? If the pillows don't get washed this weekend, nothing bad is gonna happen. I can go on a coffee date with my daughter because that's more important. I don't need to earn those 20 minutes by washing pillowcases or or whatever, sweeping the floor. And that's because if God forbid, I lost my life tomorrow. My kids aren't gonna remember that the pillowcases were clean. They're gonna remember that time or all the times we went out for a coffee date or something like that. And so I hope that people can reflecting upon Memorial Day, also thinking about how do you live your life intentionally, what really matters? Go for a walk together with someone.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

Yeah, you know, yeah, I think yeah, anything, right? Just be present in the moment when you're with people as opposed to being on a device. That'd be like my those are my words of wisdom. And I say that because, like I said, it's been it's been a good thing for Christian and I to be able to have conversations together. But everybody's glued to their phone all the time. Even when I go to the gym, I always leave my phone in the car. And granted, I go to classes when I work out, but still, I don't want any because the watch is connected to the phone, and then you get text messages. I don't want any distractions. I go in, do what I need to do, and then leave. I'll check my phone an hour when I'm done. Nothing, I don't think anything is that critical. And that's the other piece, too, is that everything is a fire in most corporations when it's really not. It's usually more a 4-1-1 situation, not so much 9-1-1 situation. And so the world isn't gonna burn down, the company's gonna be in business, you're gonna be okay tomorrow to do what you need to do. Like set your boundaries. It's okay to close your laptop tonight and re reconvene tomorrow. And I think that was a very hard lesson for me to learn. Even so, I mean, you how many times do you tell me, um, Rebecca, it's after seven o'clock, stop working?

SPEAKER_00 25:40

Uh, all the time. Along with what you just said, ask yourself, is this really a 911 or is this a 411 situation?

SPEAKER_01 25:51

Yeah. Um, what one of the companies I worked at, there was somebody who had that tape to the side of his desk. Is this a 411 or 911? I love that. I love that. Because it's true. And everybody makes everything a 911. Nothing's on fire. We're good, okay? We can we can figure it out tomorrow. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

And also, there's a couple things you said there. So when you were saying, Oh, I keep my AirPods in because I don't, I don't want distractions, etc., I just watched like an Instagram reel of this young girl talking about she did a little mini article about take your airpods out because she was traveling and this elderly woman started a conversation with her and she took her AirPod out. She answered the woman's question, she put her airpod in again. Then this woman asked her another question, and she was like, ugh, she took her airpod out. And this woman was asking her about her travel.

unknown 26:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

So then finally, the lady said to her, I've always wanted to travel internationally. I've never been able to. She was 81, and this girl, I think, is in her 20s. She just came back from Spain for a job. And so they started talking about travel. Long story short, they're now dinner buddies. The young woman has promised to travel. The elderly woman is afraid to fly on planes. The young woman has promised to fly with her if she goes somewhere. And this beautiful friendship was built because something you might consider a distraction actually turned into a meaningful conversation. And I think that's what we're talking about today, right? I mean, we reflect on Memorial Day. We look at are we living with intentionality? Are we honoring the lives we live by actually being present in them and not just surviving? Are we are we meeting new people? And I think sometimes you and I are biased in that situation because we've spent careers with meeting people. Right. And I just love people. I think people are so cool and everybody has a story. And if you take a moment to put your phone down, take your AirPod out, go for the walk around your neighborhood for 10 minutes, you know, you'd be amazed at what life will bring to you.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

Yeah. I said even when I walk my dog in the morning, I usually I will I don't take any devices or anything with me. Sometimes I do just to record her because she's cute. But most of the time I don't take anything and it's just, you know, her and I time, and we walk around the neighborhood and she's happy as anything because she she loves the price, trays. But but it there was something I was listening to with the AirPods. I feel like people wear AirPods even if they're not listening to anything or talking to anyone now because they don't want to interact with people. And it's almost like a stranger danger thing. Like, don't talk to me, I don't know you. I feel like that's very much much the northeast mentality because I know I was like that when I first moved to Texas, and people would say hi to me. I'm like, I don't know you while you're talking to me. But it's just kind of like that southern hospitality type thing. It's the culture in Texas, where in the Northeast you're very much kind of keep to yourself and don't interact with strangers, whatever. But I have heard recently that people are continuously wearing their AirPods so they don't have to interact with other people. And so maybe that's a lesson and they need to take them out and just see what happens.

SPEAKER_00 29:02

See that too, though, because I think if you're in a career or space where you're always on, so if you're on because you're dropping your kids off and you have to talk to the teachers and talking to the minute because you're dropping something off for their little school party, and then you go into work and you're managing people or you're managing clients and you're or you're customer facing, you're on, on, on. By the time you're off, you're like, I don't want to talk to anybody, I don't want to make a decision. I want to sit on this plane, I want to sit on this train or bus wherever I'm going, and I don't want to talk to anybody. And I'm guilty of that too. And also because I am one of those people where everybody just randomly talks to me and tells me their life story. I don't know. And I try to be mindful of that because I'm empathetic, like, oh, maybe they just need somebody to talk to. But and I've met some really cool people, and then other times I'm like, I don't want to talk to anybody. But I will tell you just a fun moment. I got stranded one time in Atlanta when AirTran, do you remember AirTran? It was an airline. But okay. They were like the spirit back in the day. Okay. I got stranded in Atlanta overnight, and two people I was stuck with, one was a young woman, also from the Northeast, and one was a gentleman who was coming back from a vending machine conference. I didn't even know this was a thing. He was one of the vendors for the vending machines. He had a carry-on full of snacks. So, me, this man, and this young woman, we all sat together overnight. He fed us. I was like 20 to make sure we were okay. And we had the coolest conversation. I would have never known that was a thing. I definitely would have been starving overnight because nothing was open in the airport, and we were just stranded there. And it was just that is one of those moments where you start talking to somebody and you don't realize what will come of it.

SPEAKER_01 30:51

So yeah, you do you do meet interesting people who are traveling for sure. I can't think of an area. Yeah, good and bad, yes. Yeah. Luckily, I haven't had any batch. I would traveling within the last couple of weeks and hearing all these stories about people traveling and them losing their minds on planes for whatever reason or another. And I I can't comprehend it, you know, like it doesn't make any sense to me why people go, but yeah. I I mean, I get a little when flights are delayed many hours, but other than that, I just don't get it.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

And I understand that to a degree, but uh first of all, I always say everyone needs to work in a customer-facing position at some time in their life because you will check your own behavior really quickly when you've been on the receiving end of someone else's bad behavior. Absolutely. You shouldn't even have to do that to know how to treat people. But I see people losing their minds in fast food restaurants on the 16-year-old kids at the register. What are we doing? You know, and I think as we talk about honoring the lives and the freedoms we've been given, is that what you want to do with your time? Is yell at the 16-year-old cashier or the person making your sandwich or the airline ticketing agent? Is that how you want to spend your time? And so maybe if we have a closing thought for our listeners today, it would be one of the best ways to honor those who sacrificed for this country is by choosing to live with more presence, as we've talked about, more gratitude, yeah, even for the things that might not be obvious, more integrity, and then more appreciation for the people and moments that actually matter. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 32:46

Follow us on all your socials, NFNA Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 32:49

Until next time.